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MadStorkSports
11-08-2011, 09:31
Like many others across the country I've been
fighting myself to figure out how I really
feel about Joe Paterno's role in what took
place at Penn State during and after Jerry
Sandusky's time at the school. Believe it
or not, for those of us who aren't on a witch
hunt, this isn't an easy decision.

The DA stated the Paterno is not a target of
the investigation, and that he did exactly
what he was supposed to do legally, report it
right away. Paterno did nothing to cover this
up. He didn't sugarcoat it, or make excuses,
and Sandusky was reportedly no longer part of
the staff when the one specific reported act
at hand took place. Yet I can't help but ask
myself, what would I do if it were my kid who
was the victim here? I mean, Paterno had
nothing to do with it. He didn't turn a blind
eye to it or enable it, but why didn't Paterno
follow up on this? Should he have? Did he,
and we don't know about it? Was he discouraged?
How could he be? He's Joe Paterno, Joe Pa,
He is Penn State! Make no mistake about it,
this is no easy question to answer, because as
mad as you wanna be, and are at Peterno, he
wasn't the predator here. So whether you defend
him or damn him, I'm not sure either is wrong.

What's craziest about this is, that in a world
of college athletics, yes we have to bring that
up too, Penn State football is probably one of
a handful of programs that is "clean", if that
many LSU, Stanford, Oklahoma St, Alabama, Boise
State, Oklahoma, Oregon, Arkansas, Clemson, and
Virginia Tech, those are your BCS Top 10, and I
assure you that you will be hard pressed to find
a school among them that has as clean a reputation
as Penn State does over the same period of time,
similar maybe, as good, hard to believe. Keep in
mind that just when you think that you got it all
figured out, you don't. As a sports fan I was dead
to rights sure that both Manny and A-Rod were clean,
they weren't. Remember how Nick Saban left LSU,
and then again the Miami Dolphins? This isn't a
finger pointing contest, just trying to put it in
some kind of perspective. I too am disappointed in
Paterno, a little mad maybe, but those calling for
his head should be more concerned with what Jerry
Sandusky did, and how to get justice for the victims,
than how can we get this head coach fired because he
was a half a step behind the curve. Yes it was a
huge curve, but it was a mistake, surely a big, big
error in judgement.

Joe Paterno was not in that boys pants. Joe Paterno
did not prey on little children. Joe Paterno did
not give this animal an extra five minutes to get out
of Dodge, and though he pisses me off for not being
more full on aggressive about this, I just can't hang
him for it, but maybe I can say that because it wasn't
my kid. I just don't know. You have a right to feel
more angry about this than I do, just don't let your
anger be and frustration be misguided. Jerry Sandusky
is the degenerate here, not Joe Paterno.


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Iceman
11-08-2011, 09:55
Meh, I am not really sure how anyone can be morally torn on whether Paterno is getting an unfair shake here. I don't see anyway to give Paterno a pass on this. Anyone who is involved in covering this up is almost as culpable as Sandusky.

Your argument about Penn State being clean is completely off base. If what is being reported is true, Penn State is dirtier than any other program in the country. You can't compare, Manny and A-Rod taking steriods, or coaches knowing that Ohio State players were getting free tattoos to Joe Paterno and Penn State knowing that there was a child molesting predator in their organization and at best turning a blind eye to it and at worst covering it up and allowing it to continue.

The anger at Paterno is not blind rage or misguided at all. If Sandusky was stealing football equipment or buying players and Paterno played dumb or did just the minimum, it would be one thing, but what went on was so evil, that Paterno not just as a person of power but as a human needed to do more; and Paterno is getting the heat here, because realistically he is/was the person who wields the most power in that University. He could have gotten things done with just a phone call, thats all it would have taken.

The Boss
11-08-2011, 10:16
I think if Paterno knew about this, then he should be torched for it. I think everybody that is wanting him in jail already if forgetting one point - he may have been told about this, but it is entirely possible the Paterno did not believe it.

Think about this, if you were told by somebody that your friend of X amount of years was committing this act, would you automatically believe their story? In Paternos mind, maybe there was no chance his pal could have done this act.

People like to say "I would have done" this or that. What we are learning here is that when confronted with things like this, many people do not act the way they probably expect themselves to. A LOT of people did not stop this guy. I would expect myself to have physically stopped this child rape from happening if I stumbled upon it in that shower, and I would report it to police if I knew about it. I'm sure every other person out there would say the same thing about themselves, but this witness did not stop the event when he saw it, and a whole group of people at the Uni did not report it.

Heres Kim Jones With Mike Francesa on YES yesterday. She did a great job and was on for quite a while, but they only loaded a small segment.

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Iceman
11-08-2011, 10:54
People like to say "I would have done" this or that. What we are learning here is that when confronted with things like this, many people do not act the way they probably expect themselves to. A LOT of people did not stop this guy. I would expect myself to have physically stopped this child rape from happening if I stumbled upon it in that shower, and I would report it to police if I knew about it. I'm sure every other person out there would say the same thing about themselves, but this witness did not stop the event when he saw it, and a whole group of people at the Uni did not report it.

Heres Kim Jones With Mike Francesa on YES yesterday. She did a great job and was on for quite a while, but they only loaded a small segment.



Its unbelievable how many people supposedly knew about this and didn't take the right steps to stop it. The Grad Assistant who saw the attack taking place in the shower should also be taking alot of heat. You are 28 years old and you see a 60 year old man attacking a child and you don't do anything to stop it, I mean thats unspeakable. You run out of the locker room and call your father who tells you to come home. I mean who would do that (both the grad and his father!) And it also shows how much power Joe Paterno had there, that the Grad Assistant finally decided he needs to do something and he doesnt go to the police, or the campus police or an administrator he went to Paterno's house the next day.

While I don't think Paterno should "go to jail" for this, I do think he has disgraced himself with this scandal.

BTW I thought Kim Jones did a solid job yesterday, and I wish Francesa would have her on more often. Its not that shes so amazing but Francesa seems to work well with her which is probably more important.

The Boss
11-08-2011, 11:57
Yea Kim was great and she always goes well with Mike, Ed Coleman, Moose, Continent or whoever she is teamed with on WFan. I can't wait to hear what she has dug up at PSU today. I'm sure she'll be on with Mike later.

I'm not sure why I didnt mention this before, but another aspect and reason to cut Paterno some slack comes fromt he story Kim jones told yesterday. Somehow one of the victims mothers ask Sandusky in her home if he touched her son. He admitted it, and there were 2 police officers listening from behind closed doors. I guess this story was taken to the D.A, who decided not to prosecute.

So, when you consider this, how can you still trash Paterno? It might not have been Paterno that actually brought it to police, but authorities were aware of it and they did nothing, so what should Paterno do?

The YES video was taken down, but we have this with Kim Jones and Mike Francesa taking about Penn State scandal
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Tqa9OvJvx2I?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

At the 18:40 mark of this clip is the point that Kim tell the story about the police and the D.A. It happened in 1998. The police and D.A had knowledge of it. Paterno fired the guy off the staff. Paterno is not a judge, and he never saw anything first hand, so what is he getting so much grief?

Iceman
11-08-2011, 15:40
I don't think its the 1998 incident that is damning to Paterno. First, I am not sure if Paterno is even admitting that he new about the 1998 incident or the report that was written about it. I thought he was taken the stance that he knew nothing about it (which reports seem to indicate is not believable).

Its the 2002 incident that makes him so culpable. Lets say he knows about the 1998 incident and the 30 page report. You then have a grad assistant come to you and tell you what he saw, you know what happened in 1998 and about the report that was generated and all you do is kick it up to the AD and never follow up on it. You don't contact campus police, you don't contact the real police or the DA, you don't follow up at all?

The worst is that Paterno and the rest of the administration let him roam around campus and hold overnight camps on the property for the next decade!! Even if Paterno felt like he did enough, did he think it was okay that this guy was still coming onto campus and using the football facilities? And you can't believe that Paterno could not easily have this guy shunned and banned from campus.

I will admit seeing Paterno today, is almost sad, he is 84 and you can tell he's lost alot, but Kim Jones made a good point yesterday, this started happening 14 years ago. Paterno was sharp as a tack back then.

The Boss
11-08-2011, 19:56
I'm just so sure we know what that grad student told Joe exactly.

Maybe because he didnt want people asking why he didnt stop it, he initially said "hey that guy we all suspect of touching kids a few years ago was in the locker room area with a kid" and that, along with Joe Pa passing that information on to his superiors, and knowing that the police already know Sandusky does these things but have not legally been able to separate him from kids, is enough to at least give Joe a chance to make a statement and comment before saying he should be in jail, be fired, or say he is a disgrace.

Bubba2569
11-08-2011, 20:41
I do not condone what has happened @ Penn State or even Joe Pa role in it is. But several things seem to be missing here and I truly feel Joe is going to wind up being the sacrificial lamb- Supposedly the wome had Sandusky in her house and questioned him with 2 police officers overhearing it? this was supposedly in 1998. Where have these individuals been for 12 years????????????? this stinks of a coverup at the Highest levels of Penn state and there Alumni trying to protect the "Brand" of Penn State. What has gotten lost here is the DA who supposedly decided not to press charges disappeared not long after deciding not to press charges and his computer was found at the bottom of the proverbial river. Why wasn't this Mother screaming Bloody murder in the papers? was she paid off? where were the 2 police officers for 14 yrs? Joe Pa probably knew about it in 98 which is why sandusky was probably forced to resign. then in 2002 when it was brought to Paternos attention again he brought it to his Bosses. This reeks of a cover up and where as I do not think Joe Paterno is with out Blame I believe they should keep kicking over the rocks so to speak till they Flush ALL this out. Follow the money as they say. For some reason that Mother was quiet for a while, as were the cops, and a DA mysteriously went missing? People should not be shocked at what the powers that be will stoop to to keep there little corner of the world from getting changed.

The Boss
11-08-2011, 22:32
Good points Bubba. I just saw this this (http://live.psu.edu/story/8854) on the PSu website
Sandusky retired following the 1999 season after 32 years and 381 games on the Penn State staff. In his final game, Penn State posted a 24-0 win over Texas A&M in the 1999 Alamo Bowl, the Lions' 20th shutout since he became defensive coordinator in 1977.

Founder of The Second Mile, a charitable organization which addresses the welfare of children, Sandusky has taken a more active role since his retirement. The Second Mile's programs touch more than 100,000 at-risk youth annually.

MadStorkSports
11-08-2011, 22:42
I'll answer to this: You are correct, Paterno should have done more, but are you aware that in all the reports
so far, he is the only one to report anything at all outside of the witness? My questions here will be this:
Why didn't the AD Tim Curly tell "ANYONE"? Why didn't the grad student who told Paterno not tell anyone else?
(Though I fault him less), Tatoos, Steroids, and inappropriate gifts can never compare to deviant sexual activity,
just saying: Expect the uexpected

MadStorkSports
11-08-2011, 22:44
Keep in mind that Campus Police didn't report this to "The Police" either !

Junior
11-09-2011, 07:40
Did anybody see this rally to support Paterno last night? I guess it was on TV

The Boss
11-09-2011, 08:43
The Ex Judge on with Boomer and Carton is saying what I said earlier, There is a good chance McCreery understated what he saw at the time to Paterno, to explain his own inaction. You have that possibility along with the fact the police and DA were aware of Sanduskys in 98 and didnt stop or prosecute him. This is why I can't pass judgement on Paterno yet.

Iceman
11-09-2011, 12:30
The grand jury report says that Paterno told the AD that "the graduate assistant had seen Jerry Sandusky in the Lasch building showers fondling or doing something of a sexual nature to a young boy".

While I believe its possible that the grad assistant may have understated how graphic it was, it seems Paterno did know enough.

I think there is some confusion that by crucifying Paterno the others will get a pass, or that somehow Paterno is more guilty. I don't think that at all. There is so much blame to go around here its insane. The administation, the grad assistant and Paterno are all guilty here, in fact I find McQueary more guilty than Paterno. There is no question there was a systematic cover up. You have administrators being charged with felony perjury! I think this cover up goes so far up the chain its going to be unbelievable.

A caller called up and talked about McQueary job employment after he witnessed Sandusky attacking the boy. The inference was that if you looked at the jobs McQueary has gotten it looks like a quid pro quo situation. This is just going to get much worse.

The Boss
11-09-2011, 15:32
The Grand Jury report can say whatever it wants, where do they get their information? I'm not saying it is not true, I'm not saying it isnt true, it might be, and I am leaning heavily towards being disgusted with Paterno, but I need to hear his side.

Paterno did not witness this himself, so if the higher ups told him they reported it to the police, why would Paterno not belive them? How do we know that Paterno was not lied to by them?

This is not likely, but there ARE scenerios out there that might explain his situation a bit, and would lessen the rage towards him.

MadStorkSports
11-09-2011, 15:55
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The Boss
11-10-2011, 08:47
Paterno ousted last night.. and a riot followed. At least it was a minor riot and I havent heard of any injuries. Those Penn St kids riot so nicely. McQueary is still on the staff. he more I hear about him the more I realize it is possible he himself might have been molested by Sandusky. Earlier, on Boomer and Carton, a caller said McQuery was a big high school QB in a school right near PSU. I also heard the foundation founded by Sandusky was founded in the 70's. I find it entirely possible that McQuery could have been a part of some football camp Sandusky was involved with, and you can figure out the rest. This would help explain why he might not have stopped the event from happening, and why he might not have wanted to get too involved with the police.

fansince87
11-10-2011, 15:03
Incidents in 98', 00', and 02'. Have to think Joe knew enough. He is legally okay but there will be civil suits against him no doubt.

You have to think there is something to the opinion of Joe Pa looking out for Joe Pa. Seems he was worried more about not hurting his program and went along with not following up and sweeping things under. Yesterday he certainly was trying to keep his job till the end of the year as much as anything else.

Boss asked how we don't know he was lied to. Well, you don't say in a statement that you should have done more if you were lied to. If they lied to Joe and tried to shield him from it he would not have been able to do more cause he wouldn't have known better.

The Boss
11-10-2011, 21:45
Look, I dont think he was fooled into thinking the police were informed, I'm just saying it, and many other things,are possible.

I wish I could go back in time with what i know now and stop all this from happening. My statement doesnt mean I had any knowledge at the time though. Joes comment is not him admitting anything, even if everybody wants to jump on it as if it was

Jersey John
11-10-2011, 22:47
ncidents in 98', 00', and 02'. Have to think Joe knew enough.

The point has been made many times today, he has 55 in 98. he didnt just happen to start that year. I think I heard this foundation was started in the 70's. There are people in their 40's out there that were probably his victims.

Iceman
11-11-2011, 09:28
Look, I dont think he was fooled into thinking the police were informed, I'm just saying it, and many other things,are possible.

I wish I could go back in time with what i know now and stop all this from happening. My statement doesnt mean I had any knowledge at the time though. Joes comment is not him admitting anything, even if everybody wants to jump on it as if it was

I definitely understand where you are coming from about waiting for Paternos side. But I don't think anyone is jumping to unreasonable conclusions.

I just don't foresee Joe coming out and saying anything or laying out a scenario that could make him look better; What can he possibly say that would be believable? So far the more facts that come out the worse it has gotten.

Paterno was the most powerful man on that campus and in that town, thats why he is taking such a beating on the coverup. If anyone person could have stepped up and stopped this it was him.